JHK yaks with independent energy analyst and author Chris Nelder about the fine points of making an energy transition (or not) from the current economy into whatever the next one is. Chris is more sanguine about the alt energy future than JHK is, but we have a respectful and lively discussion of the issue from two sides. Chris Nelder is the author of "Profit From the Peak" and "Investing in Renewable Energy." He has worked as a software engineer and technical writer for Microsoft and ran a solar electric installation company before turning full time into the specialized field of energy investment.

JHK and Charles Hugh Smith, author and blogger at OfTwoMinds.com, yak about the Deep State, our favorite new word for what used be be known as the Establishment. We also touch on Charles's theory that the Deep State will be willing to "throw Wall Street under the bus" to save itself, if it felt threatened. This is JHK's return to the podcast after several months off finishing the third instalklment of the four-part World Made By Hand series. The title of WMBH-3 is A History of the Future. It will be published in September by the Atlantic Monthly Press.